Robert Augustus Masters Q&A Part One
March 7, 2006
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A. Questions from Plasmafly (Jana) -
1. There was some indication that RAM was put out by the suggestion that what he was experiencing was a shamanistic death/rebirth.
Of course someone like RAM with his superb knowitall mind, and really solid brainware would bring on the mother of all shamanistic death rebirth chemistry. When he is actually going thru it tho there is no way to put any kind of label on the condition, its too extreme, its too everything, such a omnipotent thing cannot be defined while in the middle of it. Our culture being death-phobic like it is doesn't acknowledge the essential process of death and rebirth...ie: metamorphosis. Only years after the fact when we have some objective distance can we define the nature of our experience, and put it in a nice tidy box with a specific label assigned to similar human experiences.
So I would ask RAM now, was it a shamanistic death/rebirth metamorphic process he went through?
2. It appears that the experience gave RAM more respect for the work that the ego does to “hold us together.”
Is it important to actually lose this function in order to give us an appreciation of its worth? And did the compassion for his own ego translate into being more compassionate over other peoples egos?
3. Does RAM now distinguish the difference between personality and Soul/Self in his daily life…or has his perception melted into an ALL IS ONE sensitivity?
4. I want to know if he "lost" anything of himself in the Darkness Shining Wild process...what did he lose, what did he gain? Did he lose it permanently? Also has his present life spun out specifically from the radius of that "event" or is it an extension or new edition of his life prior to the event? That is how did it remake the man and his life? And does RAM feel any differently about death, or love for that matter?????
5. Has his general fear about life been reduced in direct correspondence to his “new” compassion?
6. Also was the Darkness Shining Wild experience a “humiliation” on some level, or was there no vestige of the ego left “in order to be humiliated?"
To touch the objectivity of reality beyond personal humiliation must give one a sense of freedom from fixation on the fear of death. And also build what must amount to third tier boundary formation where the demands/delusions of the ego of others do not “affect” one so much. Thus perhaps a new center of Self is born, detached and with more freedom to “choose.”
Is that right?
7. I also want to know if RAM is more sure or less sure in his decisions and navigation since he has a less myopic self-sense? With more "range" is it harder or easier to focus on right action?
8. I had a dream of RAM the other morning. Now RAM is a slightly “harder” dream teacher than Ken, but just as poignant.
In relation to that dream I would like to ask if Robert considers lower stage relationship/sex to be largely governed by older brain areas more related to survival and tribal group position?
And that because of this, one has to have developed a certain level of affluence, capability and social prestige before “spiritual” relationship is possible. If this is so this means that ones relationship to oneself is run on more primitive hardware unless there is a degree of actual success and proficiency in the worldly domain of action and consequence. The point being that since one will attract and perpetuate the type of relationship/sex that ones wiring and experience dictates…according to ones position in the world…then how is one to break out of the fatal determinism to achieve higher realms of relationship/sex?
Robert answers:
1. At the time that I was offered the label “shamanistic crisis” (a few days after my NDE), it was to me no more than a bit of well-meaning confetti in a cosmic storm. I would now, more than a dozen years later, describe my DSW experience as, among other things, a death/rebirth process. It was one hell of a journey, a full-term, full-out labor (I just recently realized that my birthday [December 19th] is exactly 9 months after the date of my taking 5-MeO [February 19th]).
2. Losing (or losing contact with) our egoic functioning does not necessarily give us an appreciation of its worth. For example, if we are already unstable, the loss of our egoity may just speed our entry into psychosis. What does give us an appreciation of our ego’s worth is the ongoing practice of relating to our egoity (or not identifying with it), which means keeping it functionally peripheral to Being.
My compassion for my own egoity (and shortcomings) did translate into in a vastly deepened compassion for the egoity (and shortcomings) of others, which has continued to this day.
3. I do distinguish the difference between personality and soul (which I define as the presence of individuated Being), even as I also intuit/feel their non-difference.
A caveat: Let us not permit our embrace of our non-separateness to separate us from our differences.
4. What did I lose of myself in the DSW process? Much of my attachment to being somebody special. Qualities like arrogance didn’t totally disappear, but got a lot less juice from me. I lost interest in my guru-centric ways. I lost my isolation. My heart’s longing was no longer buffered by my meditative talents. And what did I gain? Another life, a deeper faith, a far richer intimacy with the Real (both in Its unmanifest and manifest dimensions).
My present life has spun out from the epicenter of my DSW process. I did not continue, and did not want to continue, my pre-5-MeO ways (which felt to me as though they literally belonged to a previous life). When I began working with people again, I had the same abilities, but my modus operandi was very different: I felt compassion all the way up and all the way down. I was so grateful to be alive, to have come through my hellish ordeal, that I didn’t make nearly as much fuss when things didn’t go my way.
Do I feel differently about death? Yes! And love? Yes! (Check out Divine Dynamite for more about where I’m at with death and love.) Dying to live, to really live, dying to love, to really love. Death is not later. Nor is love. In embracing death, I am brought closer to the deathless.
5. Yes, my general fear about life has been reduced in direct correspondence to the depth of my compassion. Compassion doesn’t necessarily get rid of fear, but gives it room to breathe itself beyond its viewpoint. Meeting fear with love, or at least with the intention to love, allows us to encounter it in ways that serve us. It is most helpful to recognize that most fear is just excitement in drag. (See my May 2005 newsletter: www.RobertMasters.com/newsletter/May05.pdf for an essay on working with fear.)
6. Humiliation? I was too blown apart, too infused with terror, too cornered by madness, to feel humiliated. Before, I would have been mortified to have been flipping out like I was, but in the midst of my DSW process, I didn’t care. Whether I drooled, or shrank, or spun out into accelerating terror, I didn’t care how I appeared. Self-consciousness gave up the ghost, at least for a while. Out of this gradually emerged a “new” center of Self, a subjectivity that had both clear boundaries and a liberating sense of boundlessness. And the freedom to “choose”? Suffice it to say for now that I, more often than not, enjoy the freedom of not needing to have a choice (for more on this, see my essay on the nature of choice in the same newsletter mentioned in the previous paragraph).
7. I am more sure in my decisions and navigation. With more “range,” it is easier to focus on right action.
8. How to achieve “higher realms of relationship/sex? Put a lot of juice into waking up, not just in “conducive” settings, but in every sort of setting. Getting intimate with the lower realms of relationship/sex -- which doesn’t necessarily mean making a virtue out of doing time there -- readies us for the deeper reaches of relationship and sexuality. This asks for uncommon courage. In the liberating bondage of genuinely intimate relationship, we touch and are touched by what is too real to be imagined.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B. MichaelD makes the following request:
1. I'd just like him to say a word or two about how love played a role in his recovery. And if it makes any sense to differentiate eros and agape in that context...
Robert answers:
1. Again and again, love outshone fear. Love allowed me, at times, to respond compassionately to my extreme terror, right as it was happening. Such love was not so much a feeling as a living choice, a primordial stand. Sometimes it was simply me loving another in bare everyday humanity, and sometimes it was far beyond the personal, existing as an unparalleled purity of presence and knowingness that brought what was left of me to my knees, until all there was was Love...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C. crystallake2 (Dan) asks:
1. Would RAM recommend celibacy as a way to transcend your present stage of growth if indeed ones sexual experiences are a manifestation of egoic self-limitation? Does Celibacy help if ones sexual evolution creates a barrier to the next stage of growth?
[In answering the above, could you define what you would mean by "celibacy" - e.g. no sex with others, also no masturbation, no thoughts/fantasies of sex - I've heard it defined in all these ways and more. -Arthur]
2. Your drug experiences are so esoteric and far removed from any "normal" altered state and describe a highly unstable medically dangerous disequilibrium. How can an average person begin to relate to this? How can I use your story and experience and apply it to my life? There is no way I could ever risk this type of experience [i.e. drug induced] (and perhaps this is one barrier my ego has put in place).
3. Can the growth and breakthroughs you have experienced be practically applied to anyone not using any type of drug whatsoever? Can it be done in a more balanced and safe manner without disruption to ones "normal" life. (i.e. if you are a parent for example).
4. If there were one thing you could do to authentically accelerate ones growth to a new stage and stabilize that, what would it be? Is there a universal you can use or is that question strictly one that requires unique strategies depending on the individual?
5. If one has never participated in or practiced psychotherapy, where would you start?
Robert answers:
1. “Does celibacy help if one’s sexual evolution creates a barrier to the next stage of growth?” This is a sticky topic: Celibacy (here meaning no sex with others) can be no more than mere repression and avoidance (regardless of its spiritual garb), and it also can be a more positive practice, providing, for example, a much needed breather between relationships. Prolonged celibacy is probably not a good idea for most of us; horny celibates are prone to making fucked-up choices.
My recommendation is to not avoid the sexual arena. Just enter it with open eyes, doing whatever you can to liberate sex from the obligation to make you feel better. This means, in part, getting to know the very territories from which celibacy urges are often a flight (for more on this, check out my January 2006 Newsletter (www.RobertMasters.com/newsletter/January2006.pdf).
2. How can an average person relate to my DSW experience? By recognizing that its elements, on whatever scale, are present in daily life. For example, we all experience moments of groundlessness most days, regardless of how quickly we pave them over. How to use my story? You could start by more deeply exploring your fear. You don’t have to have experiences like mine to do so. The dragons await, level upon level. Remember that their fire not only burns, but also gives light.
3. “Can the growth and breakthroughs you have experienced be practically applied to anyone not using any type of drug whatsoever?” Yes. “Can it be done in a more balanced and safe manner without disruption to one’s ‘normal’ life(i.e., if you are a parent, for example)?” Probably not. Some disruption is inevitable, if only to break up the logjams behind our forehead. At the same time, the disruption does not have to be so intense that it endangers your capacity to be a parent. I did not consciously choose the extreme disruption I suffered; if I’d known what I was in for, I would have not done what I did (and nor would I recommend “my” route!).
4. Do whatever you do with awareness and care, and do it in a way that is uniquely suited to you.
5. Start with an integrally-informed psychotherapist recommended by people whom you trust, making sure that you feel a natural rapport and connection with him or her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A. Questions from Plasmafly (Jana) -
1. There was some indication that RAM was put out by the suggestion that what he was experiencing was a shamanistic death/rebirth.
Of course someone like RAM with his superb knowitall mind, and really solid brainware would bring on the mother of all shamanistic death rebirth chemistry. When he is actually going thru it tho there is no way to put any kind of label on the condition, its too extreme, its too everything, such a omnipotent thing cannot be defined while in the middle of it. Our culture being death-phobic like it is doesn't acknowledge the essential process of death and rebirth...ie: metamorphosis. Only years after the fact when we have some objective distance can we define the nature of our experience, and put it in a nice tidy box with a specific label assigned to similar human experiences.
So I would ask RAM now, was it a shamanistic death/rebirth metamorphic process he went through?
2. It appears that the experience gave RAM more respect for the work that the ego does to “hold us together.”
Is it important to actually lose this function in order to give us an appreciation of its worth? And did the compassion for his own ego translate into being more compassionate over other peoples egos?
3. Does RAM now distinguish the difference between personality and Soul/Self in his daily life…or has his perception melted into an ALL IS ONE sensitivity?
4. I want to know if he "lost" anything of himself in the Darkness Shining Wild process...what did he lose, what did he gain? Did he lose it permanently? Also has his present life spun out specifically from the radius of that "event" or is it an extension or new edition of his life prior to the event? That is how did it remake the man and his life? And does RAM feel any differently about death, or love for that matter?????
5. Has his general fear about life been reduced in direct correspondence to his “new” compassion?
6. Also was the Darkness Shining Wild experience a “humiliation” on some level, or was there no vestige of the ego left “in order to be humiliated?"
To touch the objectivity of reality beyond personal humiliation must give one a sense of freedom from fixation on the fear of death. And also build what must amount to third tier boundary formation where the demands/delusions of the ego of others do not “affect” one so much. Thus perhaps a new center of Self is born, detached and with more freedom to “choose.”
Is that right?
7. I also want to know if RAM is more sure or less sure in his decisions and navigation since he has a less myopic self-sense? With more "range" is it harder or easier to focus on right action?
8. I had a dream of RAM the other morning. Now RAM is a slightly “harder” dream teacher than Ken, but just as poignant.
In relation to that dream I would like to ask if Robert considers lower stage relationship/sex to be largely governed by older brain areas more related to survival and tribal group position?
And that because of this, one has to have developed a certain level of affluence, capability and social prestige before “spiritual” relationship is possible. If this is so this means that ones relationship to oneself is run on more primitive hardware unless there is a degree of actual success and proficiency in the worldly domain of action and consequence. The point being that since one will attract and perpetuate the type of relationship/sex that ones wiring and experience dictates…according to ones position in the world…then how is one to break out of the fatal determinism to achieve higher realms of relationship/sex?
Robert answers:
1. At the time that I was offered the label “shamanistic crisis” (a few days after my NDE), it was to me no more than a bit of well-meaning confetti in a cosmic storm. I would now, more than a dozen years later, describe my DSW experience as, among other things, a death/rebirth process. It was one hell of a journey, a full-term, full-out labor (I just recently realized that my birthday [December 19th] is exactly 9 months after the date of my taking 5-MeO [February 19th]).
2. Losing (or losing contact with) our egoic functioning does not necessarily give us an appreciation of its worth. For example, if we are already unstable, the loss of our egoity may just speed our entry into psychosis. What does give us an appreciation of our ego’s worth is the ongoing practice of relating to our egoity (or not identifying with it), which means keeping it functionally peripheral to Being.
My compassion for my own egoity (and shortcomings) did translate into in a vastly deepened compassion for the egoity (and shortcomings) of others, which has continued to this day.
3. I do distinguish the difference between personality and soul (which I define as the presence of individuated Being), even as I also intuit/feel their non-difference.
A caveat: Let us not permit our embrace of our non-separateness to separate us from our differences.
4. What did I lose of myself in the DSW process? Much of my attachment to being somebody special. Qualities like arrogance didn’t totally disappear, but got a lot less juice from me. I lost interest in my guru-centric ways. I lost my isolation. My heart’s longing was no longer buffered by my meditative talents. And what did I gain? Another life, a deeper faith, a far richer intimacy with the Real (both in Its unmanifest and manifest dimensions).
My present life has spun out from the epicenter of my DSW process. I did not continue, and did not want to continue, my pre-5-MeO ways (which felt to me as though they literally belonged to a previous life). When I began working with people again, I had the same abilities, but my modus operandi was very different: I felt compassion all the way up and all the way down. I was so grateful to be alive, to have come through my hellish ordeal, that I didn’t make nearly as much fuss when things didn’t go my way.
Do I feel differently about death? Yes! And love? Yes! (Check out Divine Dynamite for more about where I’m at with death and love.) Dying to live, to really live, dying to love, to really love. Death is not later. Nor is love. In embracing death, I am brought closer to the deathless.
5. Yes, my general fear about life has been reduced in direct correspondence to the depth of my compassion. Compassion doesn’t necessarily get rid of fear, but gives it room to breathe itself beyond its viewpoint. Meeting fear with love, or at least with the intention to love, allows us to encounter it in ways that serve us. It is most helpful to recognize that most fear is just excitement in drag. (See my May 2005 newsletter: www.RobertMasters.com/newsletter/May05.pdf for an essay on working with fear.)
6. Humiliation? I was too blown apart, too infused with terror, too cornered by madness, to feel humiliated. Before, I would have been mortified to have been flipping out like I was, but in the midst of my DSW process, I didn’t care. Whether I drooled, or shrank, or spun out into accelerating terror, I didn’t care how I appeared. Self-consciousness gave up the ghost, at least for a while. Out of this gradually emerged a “new” center of Self, a subjectivity that had both clear boundaries and a liberating sense of boundlessness. And the freedom to “choose”? Suffice it to say for now that I, more often than not, enjoy the freedom of not needing to have a choice (for more on this, see my essay on the nature of choice in the same newsletter mentioned in the previous paragraph).
7. I am more sure in my decisions and navigation. With more “range,” it is easier to focus on right action.
8. How to achieve “higher realms of relationship/sex? Put a lot of juice into waking up, not just in “conducive” settings, but in every sort of setting. Getting intimate with the lower realms of relationship/sex -- which doesn’t necessarily mean making a virtue out of doing time there -- readies us for the deeper reaches of relationship and sexuality. This asks for uncommon courage. In the liberating bondage of genuinely intimate relationship, we touch and are touched by what is too real to be imagined.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B. MichaelD makes the following request:
1. I'd just like him to say a word or two about how love played a role in his recovery. And if it makes any sense to differentiate eros and agape in that context...
Robert answers:
1. Again and again, love outshone fear. Love allowed me, at times, to respond compassionately to my extreme terror, right as it was happening. Such love was not so much a feeling as a living choice, a primordial stand. Sometimes it was simply me loving another in bare everyday humanity, and sometimes it was far beyond the personal, existing as an unparalleled purity of presence and knowingness that brought what was left of me to my knees, until all there was was Love...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C. crystallake2 (Dan) asks:
1. Would RAM recommend celibacy as a way to transcend your present stage of growth if indeed ones sexual experiences are a manifestation of egoic self-limitation? Does Celibacy help if ones sexual evolution creates a barrier to the next stage of growth?
[In answering the above, could you define what you would mean by "celibacy" - e.g. no sex with others, also no masturbation, no thoughts/fantasies of sex - I've heard it defined in all these ways and more. -Arthur]
2. Your drug experiences are so esoteric and far removed from any "normal" altered state and describe a highly unstable medically dangerous disequilibrium. How can an average person begin to relate to this? How can I use your story and experience and apply it to my life? There is no way I could ever risk this type of experience [i.e. drug induced] (and perhaps this is one barrier my ego has put in place).
3. Can the growth and breakthroughs you have experienced be practically applied to anyone not using any type of drug whatsoever? Can it be done in a more balanced and safe manner without disruption to ones "normal" life. (i.e. if you are a parent for example).
4. If there were one thing you could do to authentically accelerate ones growth to a new stage and stabilize that, what would it be? Is there a universal you can use or is that question strictly one that requires unique strategies depending on the individual?
5. If one has never participated in or practiced psychotherapy, where would you start?
Robert answers:
1. “Does celibacy help if one’s sexual evolution creates a barrier to the next stage of growth?” This is a sticky topic: Celibacy (here meaning no sex with others) can be no more than mere repression and avoidance (regardless of its spiritual garb), and it also can be a more positive practice, providing, for example, a much needed breather between relationships. Prolonged celibacy is probably not a good idea for most of us; horny celibates are prone to making fucked-up choices.
My recommendation is to not avoid the sexual arena. Just enter it with open eyes, doing whatever you can to liberate sex from the obligation to make you feel better. This means, in part, getting to know the very territories from which celibacy urges are often a flight (for more on this, check out my January 2006 Newsletter (www.RobertMasters.com/newsletter/January2006.pdf).
2. How can an average person relate to my DSW experience? By recognizing that its elements, on whatever scale, are present in daily life. For example, we all experience moments of groundlessness most days, regardless of how quickly we pave them over. How to use my story? You could start by more deeply exploring your fear. You don’t have to have experiences like mine to do so. The dragons await, level upon level. Remember that their fire not only burns, but also gives light.
3. “Can the growth and breakthroughs you have experienced be practically applied to anyone not using any type of drug whatsoever?” Yes. “Can it be done in a more balanced and safe manner without disruption to one’s ‘normal’ life(i.e., if you are a parent, for example)?” Probably not. Some disruption is inevitable, if only to break up the logjams behind our forehead. At the same time, the disruption does not have to be so intense that it endangers your capacity to be a parent. I did not consciously choose the extreme disruption I suffered; if I’d known what I was in for, I would have not done what I did (and nor would I recommend “my” route!).
4. Do whatever you do with awareness and care, and do it in a way that is uniquely suited to you.
5. Start with an integrally-informed psychotherapist recommended by people whom you trust, making sure that you feel a natural rapport and connection with him or her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
posted by adastra at 4:35 PM
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