Robert Augustus Masters Q&A Part Six
March 12, 2006
A. Rhonda/feral asks:
1. Robert, could you talk about your personal spiritual evolution from the time you were a child to the present? What were some significant learnings and turning points? What were some surprises? What have you believed in the past that you no longer believe and why? Where do you see yourself heading?
2. Are you familiar with the work of Byron Katie, and what do you think of it?
3. What are the characteristics of a good spiritual teacher, and how do you find one?
Robert answers:
1. My personal spiritual evolution? Here’s an abbreviated take... Much of my early childhood was spent in altered states, with very fuzzy boundaries between waking and dreaming. By the time I was 10 or so, I decided that I was an atheist, thanks in part to Sunday School teachers who could not answer my questions. My teens were a spiritual wasteland. In my early 20s I rediscovered my spirituality, feeling deeply linked to the innocence, wonder, and deep openness of my early years. Soon thereafter I began to meditate and to work on myself, which has continued to this day. Along the way there have been many deepenings and just as many detours. An abundance of openings, realizations, releases, reality-unlocking times. I was spiritually very ambitious for quite a while, but for the last decade or so, I’ve felt much more content to be where I am, no longer having a spiritual timetable spinning away behind my forehead.
Significant learnings and turning points? So many! Key ones include: Abandoning my art at age 12; my first psychedelic trip; dropping out of a doctoral program when I was 22; travel adventures in Asia; the breakup of my first marriage; entering therapy and groupwork; starting to practice meditation; spending time at the Rajneesh ashram in India in 1980; finding my true work; the arrival of my children; the formation and dissolution of the community I began in 1986; my 5-MeO-DMT trip; building a new life immediately following my DSW experience; entering a doctoral program in Psychology in 1995; meeting Diane (now my partner).
I used to believe that I was special; I don’t now. Why? Because I know, right to my core, that we’re all in the same boat, and that it doesn’t really matter if I’m the captain or the deckhand, so long as I’m honoring both the shared humanness and the uniqueness of each, regardless of the weather.
I see myself heading deeper into Now, riding the waves of change with ever-increasing trust, passing on what I have learned, dying into Life, letting all things awaken me.
2. I think Byron Katie’s work can be useful for some, especially with regard to creating contexts that challenge outdated self-assumptions.
3. Good for whom? Different teachers are needed for different stages, different people, different conditions. How do you find one that is “good” for you? Let your intuition guide you. Even a teacher who seemingly isn’t good for you can be good for you, if only by making it clearer to you what you don’t need in a teacher.
Having said this, there nevertheless are qualities that, to me, are indispensable in a truly effective spiritual teacher: integrity, compassion, emotional literacy, wisdom, clarity, no dissociation from the raw stuff of life or from relationship, coupled with the ability to connect, and connect deeply, with students.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B. Jana/Plasmafly asks:
It’s kinda like if I can’t eat the whole cake, then I don’t want to take a bite.
“We cannot possess Truth, but we can let Truth possess us.” RAM
It takes me a year having sex with the same partner once a week to arrive at cosmic-sex. The disparity between that and having casual-sex once a year is too much to bear. Better to remain sexually fossilized, then I don’t notice my loneliness and unfulfilled potential. If a relationship cannot serve as a "container" for cosmic sex, then it’s just a source of frustration. Without this container, then the sex we encounter composes of various dramas, comedies and tragedies arising from our inability to build a transpersonal relationship in which supra-sex is possible. All of us have an inborn drive and anticipation for spiritual communion in relationship and sex. We die as disgruntled virgins, to the degree that the realization of this intuition is left unlived.
1. We are "realized" in action, through experience. In your writings you point to the difference between coming from a place of deprivation and coming from a place of fulfillment. Needy sex just leads to more deprivation it seems. Yet loneliness and need is what drives us beyond our defenses to engage with others. If we were all already satisfied perhaps there would be no sex. I can clearly see the difference between using sex as an addictive substance, and true communion of souls. Perhaps you would advocate sitting with ones loneliness and need coupled with spiritual practices and therapy to rise up to the level of spiritual sex? So I might have answered my own question.
“Sexual activity that does not stem from (and is not openly expressive of) Being cannot fully flower, for too much of it is rooted in artificial soil. Being-centered, romance-transcending sexuality is not the act of any ego-governed self or interiorized overseer, but rather involves a spontaneous, non-strategic, radical “undoing” (or unmaking) of whatever counterfeit or make-believe identity we have assumed and constellated ourselves around.” 61, Freedom Doesn’t Mind Its Chains, RAM.
Robert answers:
1. I think you’ve answered your own question. I recommend dating your loneliness until your aversion to it is no longer a problem, and desperation no longer fuels you. The point is not “to rise up to the level of spiritual sex”, but to reach that depth of self-acceptance and maturity of which “spiritual sex” is but a byproduct. Don’t hold such sex as a goal; rather, simply do what you have to do to be more integrated and alive, and sex will take care of itself. Permit relationship to be primary, and sex secondary, so that sex expresses, rather than creates, connection and communion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C. Arthur/adastra asks:
1. (following from the above) If someone considers it impossible, for whatever reason, to have a sexually intimate relationship, yet feels a burning desire for same, how should they proceed? Or, more generally, if someone feels intense need that must apparently go unfulfilled, how may they best use that situation to serve their awakening?
2. Do you feel there is a legitimate place for the pursuit of altered states of consciousness in spiritual development? (By whatever means - ascetic practices such as fasting, entheogens, ritual, prolonged dancing, etc.? Do you feel some methods are better or more useful than others?
3. Having been a guru, and then given that up, how do you now feel about the guru-disciple relationship? Is it helpful? Harmful? What is the role of guru in the modern context?
Robert answers:
1. Explore that desire, both from a distance and from up close, becoming as intimate as possible with its qualities, without getting lost in its object. Since it’s there, why not investigate it? Painful as this may be, it is a good pain, for through it, you’ll deepen your understanding of yourself. Out of such exploration, you may find something else to do with the energies of that desire, besides longing for a relationship you cannot have. And maybe, just maybe, authentically engaging in such exploration may bring you into the needed alignment for such a relationship.
2. Yes, though such “pursuit” can be a very slippery slope (especially when we seek altered states in order to get away from something). Which methods are best? That depends on the individual. I think it’s crucial not to get overly enamored of altered states; they may be fine to visit, but not so fine to take up residence in. It’s helpful to remember that the Real is not an altered state.
3. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that I was a guru; I had students, not disciples (blurry though the line between the two often was). I did, however, hold an authority then (that I have no interest in holding now) that certainly had guru-centric qualities.
How do I feel about the guru-disciple relationship? Well, first of all, I think that it’s plagued with transference issues, power imbalances, and parent-child concerns that all too often go unaddressed (especially in settings that don’t value psychotherapy). Those who haven’t explored and dealt with their psychological patterns, including unresolved parental issues, may benefit in some ways from having a guru, but in other ways will only obstruct and postpone their growth. Those who are more mature will do much better with a guru, being far more capable of making wiser use of him or her.
The role of the guru in a contemporary context? To serve as a guide, inspiration, and awakening presence, but with far less authoritarianism than before. I think that we as a culture are in the process of outgrowing the need for traditional gurus; this doesn’t mean, however, that we should not be cultivating and deepening our relationships with gurus/spiritual teachers with whom we have a deep fit or connection. For example, I don’t view Ramana Maharshi as my guru, but he does serves as a spiritual beacon for me, for which I am very grateful. Thich Nhat Hanh once said that the next Buddha would not be an individual, but a community. I resonate with that. A group of spiritually mature peers, and not necessarily all from the same spiritual path, is far less likely to abuse power and lose touch than a single individual.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A. Rhonda/feral asks:
1. Robert, could you talk about your personal spiritual evolution from the time you were a child to the present? What were some significant learnings and turning points? What were some surprises? What have you believed in the past that you no longer believe and why? Where do you see yourself heading?
2. Are you familiar with the work of Byron Katie, and what do you think of it?
3. What are the characteristics of a good spiritual teacher, and how do you find one?
Robert answers:
1. My personal spiritual evolution? Here’s an abbreviated take... Much of my early childhood was spent in altered states, with very fuzzy boundaries between waking and dreaming. By the time I was 10 or so, I decided that I was an atheist, thanks in part to Sunday School teachers who could not answer my questions. My teens were a spiritual wasteland. In my early 20s I rediscovered my spirituality, feeling deeply linked to the innocence, wonder, and deep openness of my early years. Soon thereafter I began to meditate and to work on myself, which has continued to this day. Along the way there have been many deepenings and just as many detours. An abundance of openings, realizations, releases, reality-unlocking times. I was spiritually very ambitious for quite a while, but for the last decade or so, I’ve felt much more content to be where I am, no longer having a spiritual timetable spinning away behind my forehead.
Significant learnings and turning points? So many! Key ones include: Abandoning my art at age 12; my first psychedelic trip; dropping out of a doctoral program when I was 22; travel adventures in Asia; the breakup of my first marriage; entering therapy and groupwork; starting to practice meditation; spending time at the Rajneesh ashram in India in 1980; finding my true work; the arrival of my children; the formation and dissolution of the community I began in 1986; my 5-MeO-DMT trip; building a new life immediately following my DSW experience; entering a doctoral program in Psychology in 1995; meeting Diane (now my partner).
I used to believe that I was special; I don’t now. Why? Because I know, right to my core, that we’re all in the same boat, and that it doesn’t really matter if I’m the captain or the deckhand, so long as I’m honoring both the shared humanness and the uniqueness of each, regardless of the weather.
I see myself heading deeper into Now, riding the waves of change with ever-increasing trust, passing on what I have learned, dying into Life, letting all things awaken me.
2. I think Byron Katie’s work can be useful for some, especially with regard to creating contexts that challenge outdated self-assumptions.
3. Good for whom? Different teachers are needed for different stages, different people, different conditions. How do you find one that is “good” for you? Let your intuition guide you. Even a teacher who seemingly isn’t good for you can be good for you, if only by making it clearer to you what you don’t need in a teacher.
Having said this, there nevertheless are qualities that, to me, are indispensable in a truly effective spiritual teacher: integrity, compassion, emotional literacy, wisdom, clarity, no dissociation from the raw stuff of life or from relationship, coupled with the ability to connect, and connect deeply, with students.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B. Jana/Plasmafly asks:
It’s kinda like if I can’t eat the whole cake, then I don’t want to take a bite.
“We cannot possess Truth, but we can let Truth possess us.” RAM
It takes me a year having sex with the same partner once a week to arrive at cosmic-sex. The disparity between that and having casual-sex once a year is too much to bear. Better to remain sexually fossilized, then I don’t notice my loneliness and unfulfilled potential. If a relationship cannot serve as a "container" for cosmic sex, then it’s just a source of frustration. Without this container, then the sex we encounter composes of various dramas, comedies and tragedies arising from our inability to build a transpersonal relationship in which supra-sex is possible. All of us have an inborn drive and anticipation for spiritual communion in relationship and sex. We die as disgruntled virgins, to the degree that the realization of this intuition is left unlived.
1. We are "realized" in action, through experience. In your writings you point to the difference between coming from a place of deprivation and coming from a place of fulfillment. Needy sex just leads to more deprivation it seems. Yet loneliness and need is what drives us beyond our defenses to engage with others. If we were all already satisfied perhaps there would be no sex. I can clearly see the difference between using sex as an addictive substance, and true communion of souls. Perhaps you would advocate sitting with ones loneliness and need coupled with spiritual practices and therapy to rise up to the level of spiritual sex? So I might have answered my own question.
“Sexual activity that does not stem from (and is not openly expressive of) Being cannot fully flower, for too much of it is rooted in artificial soil. Being-centered, romance-transcending sexuality is not the act of any ego-governed self or interiorized overseer, but rather involves a spontaneous, non-strategic, radical “undoing” (or unmaking) of whatever counterfeit or make-believe identity we have assumed and constellated ourselves around.” 61, Freedom Doesn’t Mind Its Chains, RAM.
Robert answers:
1. I think you’ve answered your own question. I recommend dating your loneliness until your aversion to it is no longer a problem, and desperation no longer fuels you. The point is not “to rise up to the level of spiritual sex”, but to reach that depth of self-acceptance and maturity of which “spiritual sex” is but a byproduct. Don’t hold such sex as a goal; rather, simply do what you have to do to be more integrated and alive, and sex will take care of itself. Permit relationship to be primary, and sex secondary, so that sex expresses, rather than creates, connection and communion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C. Arthur/adastra asks:
1. (following from the above) If someone considers it impossible, for whatever reason, to have a sexually intimate relationship, yet feels a burning desire for same, how should they proceed? Or, more generally, if someone feels intense need that must apparently go unfulfilled, how may they best use that situation to serve their awakening?
2. Do you feel there is a legitimate place for the pursuit of altered states of consciousness in spiritual development? (By whatever means - ascetic practices such as fasting, entheogens, ritual, prolonged dancing, etc.? Do you feel some methods are better or more useful than others?
3. Having been a guru, and then given that up, how do you now feel about the guru-disciple relationship? Is it helpful? Harmful? What is the role of guru in the modern context?
Robert answers:
1. Explore that desire, both from a distance and from up close, becoming as intimate as possible with its qualities, without getting lost in its object. Since it’s there, why not investigate it? Painful as this may be, it is a good pain, for through it, you’ll deepen your understanding of yourself. Out of such exploration, you may find something else to do with the energies of that desire, besides longing for a relationship you cannot have. And maybe, just maybe, authentically engaging in such exploration may bring you into the needed alignment for such a relationship.
2. Yes, though such “pursuit” can be a very slippery slope (especially when we seek altered states in order to get away from something). Which methods are best? That depends on the individual. I think it’s crucial not to get overly enamored of altered states; they may be fine to visit, but not so fine to take up residence in. It’s helpful to remember that the Real is not an altered state.
3. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that I was a guru; I had students, not disciples (blurry though the line between the two often was). I did, however, hold an authority then (that I have no interest in holding now) that certainly had guru-centric qualities.
How do I feel about the guru-disciple relationship? Well, first of all, I think that it’s plagued with transference issues, power imbalances, and parent-child concerns that all too often go unaddressed (especially in settings that don’t value psychotherapy). Those who haven’t explored and dealt with their psychological patterns, including unresolved parental issues, may benefit in some ways from having a guru, but in other ways will only obstruct and postpone their growth. Those who are more mature will do much better with a guru, being far more capable of making wiser use of him or her.
The role of the guru in a contemporary context? To serve as a guide, inspiration, and awakening presence, but with far less authoritarianism than before. I think that we as a culture are in the process of outgrowing the need for traditional gurus; this doesn’t mean, however, that we should not be cultivating and deepening our relationships with gurus/spiritual teachers with whom we have a deep fit or connection. For example, I don’t view Ramana Maharshi as my guru, but he does serves as a spiritual beacon for me, for which I am very grateful. Thich Nhat Hanh once said that the next Buddha would not be an individual, but a community. I resonate with that. A group of spiritually mature peers, and not necessarily all from the same spiritual path, is far less likely to abuse power and lose touch than a single individual.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
posted by adastra at 1:46 PM
<< Home